Since January only buses, taxis and cyclists have been allowed through this stretch during uh peak hours. The council says the scheme aims to improve bus reliability and boost the local economy, but many residents and businesses argue it's causing more harm than good with increased traffic on side streets and reduced customer access.

We've been speaking to some of those businesses and residents to hear first-hand how the bus gate is affecting them. And today we're joined live. in the studio with cabinet member for environment and transport Mr. Eamon Keogh, who's, uh, well to get his take, um, is it a step forward to a greener future or a roadblock to community prosperity?

Let's find out. Eamon, firstly, thank you very much for taking the time to join us in the studio today. 

Eamonn Keogh: Afternoon Matt. 

Matt Treviss: How are you doing? You arrived on your bike, which I absolutely love. 

Eamonn Keogh: I did. I did. Nice little cycle. 

Matt Treviss: Nice little cycle. So, Eamon, first up, you know, um, for anybody that doesn't know, do you want to just bring us up to speed and just give us a bit of a background in terms of your involvement with, with Portswood Bus Gate?

Eamonn Keogh: Yes, Matt. So, the Portswood bus gate is the final piece in the transforming cities program and this was a grant that Southampton City Council successfully bid to the Department of Transport for in 2020 along with Hampshire County Council and in essence it's bringing about 70 million pounds into the wider Southampton City region and that will cover the waterside, east sea, Handbook areas, that sort of geography.

So this is the final scheme and so far we've done some fantastic work around, for example, the regeneration of the south side of Southampton Central Station, the Albion bus gate, Arundel Pocket Garden, East Park Terrace, bus priorities, The Active Travel Zone in St. Denys, another Active Travel Zone in Walston, more Active Travel Zone measures around the St.

Mary's area. So there's been a phenomenal number of schemes and the Portswood Bus Gate is the final scheme. And the essence of Transforming Cities was to promote and encourage active travel. And that meant getting more people walking, cycling. And using the bus. 

Matt Treviss: Sure. And are those projects are those projects that you head up or what's what's your involvement?

Eamonn Keogh: So when I became the cabinet member in 2022, I then took on responsibility for overseeing the introduction of our transforming cities program. So I'm the one that signs off the projects and I'm the one that has to ultimately be accountable for the success or Yeah. Not success of those projects, but my own view and I think that of many in the city is that they have been significantly beneficial and actually being welcomed and, you go down to particularly Albion bus.

The Albion bus place at Castle Way and you see the pocket garden there, that is a transformation of that old area. So we've taken away the car parks and we put in some fantastic public realm. We've got a really innovative pocket garden that will just be very soon opening up to the guard, opening up to the public because we needed to let the, the green.

And the planting just mature and establish itself. And that's a, you know, I'm really proud of that. But then there are so many aspects to this scheme that I think I'm equally proud of. And it is a partnership. That's really important to understand. It was a partnership between Southampton, Hampshire County Council. Our highway contractors, Balfour Beatty, the Department of Transport, who provided the grants, we've had, um, the involvement of Southampton General Hospital with a scheme at the Adenac Park and Ride, the university with various schemes around the university, and obviously, Our bus operator in the city, Blue Star.

Matt Treviss: Yeah, sure. Well, look, before we hear from some of the local businesses and residents affected by the trial in, in, in Portswood, because I guess that's, that's, that's one of the main topics for today. Um, there's obviously this recent petition, you know, over 1436 signatures highlighting strong local concern.

Does the council view this as a mandate to reconsider? What's your, what's your take? 

Eamonn Keogh: As a council, we conducted a whole series of consultations. between 2020 and 2024. So the first consultation we did was an online consultation. Um, looking with, uh, actually explaining the initial proposal of the bus gate to residents and getting some feedback.

We carried out two significant public consultations, one in 2022 and a second in 2023. And both of those showed that there was significant support for the trialing of a bus gate. And that's why we have gone with a trial. Because. That was what was the preferred outcome, certainly from the second consultation that was concluded in 2023, that residents who participated, they wanted to see the introduction of a bus gate and they wanted to see that it introduced as a trial and what we've then ensured is that it will be considered over that Six month period for its initial stage.

Sure. Well, look, should we, should we have a, should we have a listen to some of the, um, some of the local businesses just to see, hear their thoughts? First up, we're going to share Jennifer from, um, Day Lewis Pharmacy. So let's have a little listen. 

So I'm here with Jennifer from Day Lewis Pharmacy on Portswood High Street.

Jennifer, how are you doing?

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: I'm very good, thank you. 

Matt Treviss: Tell me your thoughts on the recent changes to Portswood High Street and how it's affecting your business. 

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: Um, so, we didn't receive it positively, but we're willing to give it a try because obviously, you know, change is not always welcome. But, um, You know, it's been three, four, four, five weeks now, and we have seen the effects of it.

And I think the main effect for us has been definite falling, um, uh, footfall. Um, we're not having as many customers. We have noticed a decrease in our takings. We have had a couple of customers, you know, specifically calling us and saying, um, you know, um, what is a bus gate active? We're afraid to drive down the high street.

We're afraid that we might get a ticket. So you know, we're choosing not to come through. Um, we have offered, we're lucky because we're all able to offer delivery service, which doesn't always work for everyone because if somebody has a busy and active life, they will not necessarily want a delivery service.

So that is not an option. Um, we actually do have a facility where people can collect their medication um, off hours. We have a kiosk. Uh, but then again, uh, people are afraid because nobody wants to come in during the hours when it's active. They might, you know, they might get a ticket. And because of the timings, you know, um, 7 to 10.

That is when either people are going to work or the people who are working night shifts are coming back from work because that's when they pick up their prescriptions if they are in the kiosk. So yes, so it's an inconvenience for our customers and uh, we have definitely noticed um, you know, an effect of the bus gate.

Matt Treviss: Yeah, and you mentioned at the start there that you're open to change but, you know, for this to really work and strike that balance for the local community and the businesses, what do you think needs to be changed or what do you think needs to be altered? 

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: Um, I would say probably the hours. Um, you know, they need to adjust that because, um, if you're shutting down the hours when people are coming, you know, from work or going to work, there's a window there.

It's very tight. And there's, you know, there's, there's a window there that would work for all businesses. Um, you know, six o'clock. I think, you know, if, if, if it ended early or started, um, earlier, so from nine to six maybe would make sense, you know, as opposed to ten to, to seven. Um, because you still have people coming and, um, And I think the activity levels are still high at, you know, from six o'clock going on, uh, later on, um, in the evening.

So, yes. So, if they felt that it had to go and there was no opportunity for them stopping it, changing the hours might be, you know, an opportunity that they could look into. 

Matt Treviss: Sure. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for sharing your views. Is there anything else you'd like to sort of add to the conversation?

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: Um, I, I would just like to say that it's a pity. I have lived in the area, or within the area, and Um, is seeing it declining and it's definitely declining because as one of the local traders has said, just looking out of the window, you don't see people walking anymore. You know, yes, there's no cars, but there's also nobody walking around.

So clearly, it's not just affecting the number of cars that are driving through the area. But it's also affecting the number of people walking through the area. So, um, it would be a pity to see Portswood going down the drain. 

Matt Treviss: Yeah, just actually, if Portswood were to be completely pedestrianised, what impact do you think that would have on the local businesses?

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: Oh, definitely most of them would close. Um, because I don't think there's enough pedestrians who live in the vicinity to run the business. Most of the people that we have, um, and I'm speaking specifically for our business, come from all sorts of areas. They come from Bitterne , they come from Bassett, Swathling, um, we even have people coming from Shirley. 

So if they feel they can't come from those areas, I don't think the local people or the local population will be able to sustain the businesses here. So we need to make it, you know, attractive for people to be able to come from wherever they're coming from. 

Matt Treviss: Make it almost like a bit of a destination.

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: Exactly. Exactly. 

Matt Treviss: Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me today. Hey, I've really, really appreciate that. 

Jenifer - Day Lewis Pharmacy: Okay. You're welcome. 

Matt Treviss: Thank you.

So yeah, that's that's Jennifer from day Lewis pharmacy there. Obviously, she has seen a bit of a drop in footfall. And people are sort of avoiding, you know, that area through fears of the bus gate.

Eamonn what's your what's your take on that? 

Eamonn Keogh: So it's always Difficult to assess from any business point of view, what the, what the effect is in terms of their trading habits. We've got to recognize that we are moving, we have become much more of a, an online buying, um, consumer behaviors. So that's definitely having an impact, isn't it?

That much more of us are shopping online. What, what's important to understand about the bus, about the bus gate is that it doesn't stop you coming into the Portswood area. So if you're approaching from the south, you can still park at Westridge Roads car park. You can still park at Waitrose and if you are coming from the north, you could still park at Sainsbury's.

One of the concerns is that well, I can't park outside a particular shop, but that was always very restrictive There was always a limited number of parking spaces that's available. Yeah, we've tried to ensure that those are prioritized for disabled people So I do understand the concerns that are being raised and that was A objective of the bus priority or the bus gate for the Portswood area that what you're trying to do by reducing the traffic in that area, you do make it more attractive, you do make it more safer and you do make it more accessible.

And we've already seen that we've seen that with the bus priority at, for example, on Castle Way down at Albion Place by West Quay because we've reduced the traffic around there, the footfall has increased. People are finding it much more accessible, much safer, and much more attractive because there is less traffic around.

Matt Treviss: Sure. I noticed there was some, uh, there was some stats. Have you had any stats in terms of the bus journey times through Portswood? Has there been an improvement there, or? 

Eamonn Keogh: So, certainly during the morning, during the peak, and afternoon. There has been an improvement in journey times and particularly for the Blue Star 2 that links Southampton with Eastleigh, Bishopstoke and Fair Oak.

So the journey times of that are improving. And it's important to understand that we've got to look at this as a corridor from Southampton all the way to Fair Oak. So as I said, we're doing this project in conjunction with Hampshire County Council. They are spending significant sums. Upwards of 13 million, improving the bus priority around Eastleigh and Bishopstoke

we've already spent significant sums of money improving our bus corridor around the city centre in Southampton. And obviously more and more work will start to be delivered along that corridor. Now this is a key feature of what we call our Southampton Mass Transit System. And what the, what the Southampton mass transit system is designed to do is designed to provide a viable alternative to the motor car.

Now it is a long term project and it will cost us over the 20 years of the life of the project hundreds of millions of pounds. But the essence of it is that if you can demonstrate bus reliability, bus frequency, more people are using it. We already have. In terms of patronage per head of population, the fourth most successful bus operation outside of London.

So we are number four. We have over 20 million passengers making journeys on our Blue Star operations every year. So we have recovered significantly better than many other areas. from post COVID. And the more that we can do to, as I say, to improve bus journey time, bus reliability, bus accessibility, obviously, we need to focus on affordability, then that's going to encourage more people to take the bus.

And that does mean then fewer people on the road, in terms of their cars, and fewer cars on the road, benefits everyone, it benefits those car drivers that are still using the road. And there are many traders who say, look, My business is dependent on me getting around the city in my van. Well, if we can take some of the traffic off the road, they're going to get to their destinations quicker.

Now, the reality is our network at the moment cannot cope with the amount of traffic. So in the last 10 years, our population in the city has grown by about 15, 20, 000. Over the next 10 years, it's going to grow by another 15, 20, 000. You look at all the housing that's being built in the New Forest, in Tess Valley, in Eastseigh.

Those people are probably going to, at some point, either drive into the city of Southampton for work or for leisure. And that additional traffic, we can't cope with at the moment, so we've got to provide the viable alternative. And the viable alternative is the bus. The rail network, we've looked at whether we could get more people coming into the city via rail.

It doesn't stack up. There was a scheme to Introduce improved rail connectivity from the water side that was going to cost 100 million pounds. But the business case didn't stack up. There was a case looking at improved. Uh, rail reliability from hedge end that again doesn't work because the connectivity isn't there.

So if you're going to spend the money and get the best bang for your buck. It is the bus that will deliver it because the bus is the easiest way to deliver Transport of people. It's the quickest way and it is the cheapest way because if you look at HS2 We are going to be spending a hundred billion on that HS2 between London and Birmingham And maybe, you know, the decision to make it straight so that it's fast and hidden so that, you know, so we buried it.

We should have been spending that money on bus priority and that would have had a lot better benefit, I think, for the economy. Locally and nationally. 

Matt Treviss: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. It's, it's interesting. We're going to hear from, um, Roley, who's one of the local residents. Um, and I, I hear what you're saying about bus priority, but there has been this issue where the traffic is now, it's, it's taking an alternative route.

Uh, and, and Roley, he's one of the local residents. He lives in Brookfield Road. And what he's seeing is that he's, he's now getting, they're getting more congestion in the side streets. So let's hear what he has to say. And then, uh, yeah, we'll be right back after this. I'm here with local resident Rowley, who has been living in Brookvale Road for nearly 30 years.

Rowley, how are you doing? 

Roley - Local Resident: Um, yeah, well, 

I'm, I'm okay today. 

Matt Treviss: Good. Tell us, uh, tell us your thoughts on the recent changes to, uh, Portswood High Street. 

Roley - Local Resident: Yeah, okay. Um, well, first of all, I just wanted to say where I'm coming from, that I, I've, uh, been a local GP for many years, and, uh, that, uh, Therefore, I'm really keen on health and, and, uh, uh, uh, active transport in general and reducing pollution.

Uh, and, um, so you might think I'm really keen on, on all this. Um, but to my mind, the whole project with the bus gate and the way that the local active travel zone has been implemented, uh, you know, it's, it's all gone wrong and it, uh, it, um, I'm not sure it was well conceived. Um, yeah, cause. Seems, from what I'm hearing, is that, you know, the bus gate is seriously threatening the, uh, um, local businesses on, on Portswood High Street, who relied on people dropping in, or at least seeing that they were there in the past, and it's becoming less of the go to centre.

Um, and, um, in the Also, in the areas around, uh, the streets around seem to be really suffering because, um, the traffic's pushing through small roads, which, uh, like our road in Brookvale is, uh, in the middle of a conservation area, and it's quite a narrow road, if cars are parked on the road, you can't squeeze past, and the, you know, the cars can't get through.

Busy times are really jammed up there. Tempers are getting a bit frayed. You know, cars are hooting horns. People are shouting. Uh, they just literally can't get through at those times. Um, and, uh, it's actually making it quite a dangerous place for, um, uh, yeah, children to cross the road or, or inexperienced people to cycle.

Completely the opposite of what was part of the intended to make a nice active travel zone. Um, Brookvale's, you know, part of a natural cycle route which goes across east west, across the city, uh, across the common, and then it will pick up Brookvale and go towards the university, uh, so for people travelling for work or for students or whatever, you know, It should be a good, quiet, safe road.

It shouldn't be this kind of main arterial road. 

Matt Treviss: For sure. What's your thoughts on the consultation process? 

Roley - Local Resident: Yeah, they, you know, they spent a fair while sort of going around in circles on, uh, uh, on this before. And it, I went to a number of the consultation meetings. And it seemed that, you know, there was The general feeling was very much against this, uh, and they more or less said, Oh, trust us, we'll, we'll sort out the bus gates and then we'll, we'll sort out the local roads and we'll do a really good system to make sure it's not going to affect you.

And they did say that we're going to Organized to direct all the traffic along Thomas Lewis Way. Yeah. Uh, so there'd be less pollution in, uh, residential areas, and it was all gonna go there. But they've done nothing, as far as I can see, to direct the traffic that way. And indeed, they've actually made a big sign which tells people to go along Brookvale Road, um, off, off Portswood High Road.

Um, so we really feel let down by the council, um, in this. 

Matt Treviss: Eamon, what's your thoughts? 

Eamonn Keogh: I've spent, since the trial 27th of February, I spend about two or three, probably four, um, um, periods of time just visiting the area and I make sure that I'm always at the school gates at Highfield Infants at, um, drop off time and pick up times at various times of the week just so I can talk to residents.

One of the challenges that we do have with Brookvale Road, and I do accept that it has seen that a significant additionality of traffic, is that I, what's happening is that drivers are choosing to go that way. And some of the behaviors that we are seeing and we are hearing about are not ideal. And it is frustrating when, for example, drivers are in a queue of traffic and they behave either aggressively or they behave loudly by tooting their horns or not letting people out. And it is a feature that we see on our roads right across the city. So one of my concerns is the, for example, when I look at the drivers approaching the zebra crossing on Highfield Lane, how many of them don't stop.

Or, when they do stop, they're driving off too quickly before someone has actually got to the other side of the road. Now that happened to me today. I was walking my dog earlier on today, I was crossing a zebra crossing and literally I was halfway across when this gentleman decided that he was going to drive on.

Now we've got to, we've got to say to people. That there are rules of the road. And the rules of the road is, for example, that a pedestrian has right away on the zebra crossing and that you should wait until they are off the zebra crossing before you proceed. And we, I, I do have to call out that small minority of drivers.

We, we see it right across the city. They're impatient. So I live on where I live on Spring Road, I've got to reverse outta my drive and often drivers. They are too impatient. They won't let you reverse out because they're, they're wanting to get somewhere else too quickly. And in that, in that haste, they are putting other people at risk.

Now, I hear what the resident said about Brookvale Road. I've gone there regularly and we have just completed a road safety audit that was carried out by Hampshire County Council in conjunction with Hampshire Police. And the recommendation of that road audit that there were no issues raised. Now what that meant was, was that they have now concluded that there is no further action at this point that the council needs to take.

They have recommended, and we have complied with that, they have recommended taking out a build out on Brookvale Road just past Wynn Road. So we've now done that. So they've come to the conclusion that there are no further issues 

Matt Treviss: from a from a safety 

Eamonn Keogh: Yeah, from a safety point of view as a council. We know that we want to keep listening now The residents have come forward with a series of measures that they wish us to consider So when we set up this trial, we also established an independent steering group of local residences and businesses, and their view was, or their role is, to assess the data that we collect and gather, and to assess any other mitigations that we might want to put in place.

Now they're going to be meeting next Wednesday, and They have a number of additional options that we as a council would like them to consider. So we could take the view that because of the recommendation of the road safety audit, we don't need to do anything for the period of the trial. But because of the concerns that have been raised, especially by residents who live on Brookvale and parents who are taking their children to school, we believe that it's right that we should consider other measures.

I think it's not right for me to raise and talk about those now because that's the purpose of the steering group to assess them, but I am acutely aware of the concerns that residents have, but I'm also acutely aware that there Many other people who do live in areas that are blighted by congestion and noise.

And for example, there are many, many people who live above the shops on Portswood High Street. Significant numbers who, who do face, you know, or were, or have faced, are facing regular, yeah, concerns about the amount of traffic, the amount of noise, etc. And this is the difficulty with any scheme. You are displacing traffic from one road to another road, and by doing so, there will be a benefit for some, and Concern for others, and, you know, we just we just in the process of completing some essential works on Bitterne Road East, and that's meant the closure of Bitterne Road East.

Now that has meant that traffic is now having to go down Burseldon Road to, um, to get to wherever they want to get to now. The people who live on Bitterne Road East for the first time in probably they can remember are now getting a respite from the traffic that actually uses Bitterne Road East. Now I know people will say, well, they live there.

That's what you expect. And I get that. But actually, we all want to live in areas that are attractive and that are healthy for us. And the real challenge we have as a city is that there are simply. Too many car journeys, and we have to have a solution for that, and our solution is, and it's that of the city council, and it's that of the government, that we have to encourage more people to travel actively, that's walking, cycling, and getting on the bus, and one of the, one of the stronger drivers of that is that if you think about all the news and information we're hearing recently about How many people are claiming disability benefits?

How many people have poor health? One of the best antidotes to your health improvement is walking and cycling if you're able. And now we're not saying everyone has to because it depends on your ability or your disability. But if we could just get more people walking and cycling and on the bus. Everyone would benefit because our roads would be a little bit quieter, would be more attractive, would be safer and The just imagine, you know, just having all the time a much quieter road.

That's what I think everyone could support and buy into. 

Matt Treviss: I think it would be fantastic, isn't it? But not necessarily the detriment of a, of a, of a, of a, maybe a business that's. There's been trading for however long, um, but on that note, shall we take, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, um, we've got a couple more interviews to share with you.

We've got Tyler from flagship coffee. Um, and we've also got Abraham and Kamal from, uh, the Kohinoor of Kerala. Um, so we'll get your take on that. But, um, yeah, we'll take a short break. We'll do some music, got some ads and, uh, we'll be right back after this.

Abracadabra there by Lady Gaga. Welcome back. You're listening to The Business with Matt Treviss on Southampton's Voice FM. And today's a special episode featuring the, uh, controversial bus gate trial happening in Portswood. And I am joined in the studio by Eamon Keogh. Eamon, what is your role at the council?

What is your role? 

Eamonn Keogh: So my role is transport and environment. So I've got a responsibility for anything that's transport related. So that's our walking, cycling. Our buses that's looking at major schemes. We've got some really big schemes coming in the future, such as the replacement of the Northern Road Rail bridge.

And in terms of the environment, you know, that's anything from bins to the flood defences to the way in which we Try to get the city to net zero. 

Matt Treviss: Absolutely. And we've just been hearing some views from local residents and local businesses in Portswood. So we had Jennifer from Day Lewis Pharmacy. We had a local resident, Rowley lives in Brookfield Road.

Now we're going to have a little chat to, um, the owner of Flagship Coffee, Tyler. Um, let's have a little listen to what he has to say on the bus gate trial. 

I'm here with Tyler from Flagship Coffee. Tyler, how are you doing?

Tyler - Flagship Coffee: I'm very well, thank you. 

Matt Treviss: Great. Would you mind sharing your thoughts about how Portswood Bus Gate has affected your business?

Tyler - Flagship Coffee: Um, so I've seen very little effect with it, um, on my note. Um, we're right at where the bus gate begins. Um, seen very little change within numbers of cars around the area, footfall, um, and people walking in the business. 

Matt Treviss: You were talking earlier about, um, it's more of a case of being more innovative and trying to make ports with more of a destination rather than just like a flow through for traffic.

What's your thoughts on that? 

Tyler - Flagship Coffee: So yeah, um, since opening my business seven months ago, um, And opening it prior to when the bus gate got put in place. Um, there's always been a steady stream of traffic through here, but there's also always been a high footfall with the students and stuff like that. Um, so it's about making sure that if you're going to bring something in that both the business owners, community, and also the council get together to make it work and support the area that it's within.

Um, so it's about change and change is needed. to make places succeed. High streets are dying, but if you look at Portswood as a whole, there's very little amount of shops that are empty, or if not, they've got a lot of interest, the ones that are. So, yeah, Portswood's a good area to be. 

Matt Treviss: Absolutely. Who's your main customer base?

Tyler - Flagship Coffee: Main customer base, it's a mix, so it's young professionals and, um, students mainly. Um, That's partly because of the design aspect that we did with the businesses to attract more on that level. Um, you're in a high student populated area anyway, so every single business along here is going to be student based majority.

Yeah, for sure. If this trial does become permanent, are there any changes that you'd like to see? 

Um, change wise, more green spaces is a massive effect. Um, you're bringing in a bus gate, what's supposed to help and support low emissions. So actually making the area seem more green and look nicer would be a big one.

Um, and then the other is with that also comes the fact that the businesses in those areas are allowed more outdoor seating. What will then give more, um, more steady stream of income whilst we are moving into those more warmer months when more people want to sit outside. 

Matt Treviss: Yeah, for sure. Have you noticed an impact in the change of air quality so far?

Tyler - Flagship Coffee: Um, a lot more people are happy with it. Um, lesser amount of cars around always helps. Um, I know some of the residential areas around have been affected with the amount of traffic that's now going through those areas because they're not used to that amount of traffic. But that's why the council have done it as a six month trial, is to find what works best and see what is going to be the best way moving forward with it.

Matt Treviss: So there we go. Tyler from Flagship Coffee. Very little impact he's seen on negative impacts and he's very much for the for for the trial there. He was talking about more outdoor seat, more outdoor seating and potentially trying to make Portswood more of a destination to actually encourage people to um, to visit.

Eamon, what's your thoughts? Yeah, 

Eamonn Keogh: he Tyler there made some really good points about, for example, the business model of any business that needs to be adaptive and needs to be entrepreneurial. And this is the challenge for any business is how they are being impacted by, for example, our changing consumer tastes by the slowdown in the economy.

For example, I've just bought some glasses. I went into a Um, um, an optician and I got my glasses, but my wife said, well, actually what we're gonna do, get your prescription and you're going to buy them online. And I, I did feel a certain concern because I did think, well, you know, they've done my prescription, but I'm going to buy them online because they're cheaper.

I ought to really be buying them in the shop, but the price difference online was so significant that I thought, well, yeah, you know, it, it, it, it didn't justify buying them in the shop. And this is now the challenge, isn't it? That, for example, so much of what we can buy is online compared to what we used to do before because it is cheaper.

And I do agree with, for example, what he was saying about. The way in which he's operated his business in Portswood. And I really like the range of coffee shops. I've spoken to a lot of business owners in Portswood. And it does seem that those that are doing that, the coffee shops seem to be doing very, very well because they're reliant on that particular footfall trade and their proximity to the university.

I'm very close to the Bitterne District Centre and I'd love to see a lot more coffee shops operating in the bit in district centre actually we've got some really good little places there and we're now seeing as the weather gets better a lot more people sitting outside and this would be a feature for Portswood if and it's a big if if the trial were to become permanent As a council, we've got a significant sum of money that we want, would want to invest in actually improving the public realm through the high street, creating that seating area, making it more attractive, making it more accessible.

We can't do that because it's a trial. And until we know the future of that Broadway. But we do have to recognize that irrespective of the trial. All our district centers are facing a very difficult time and as a city council, we have plans about how we want to regenerate and invigorate our district centers, but it won't be cheap and we've got to understand and work with the various businesses on what is and residents about what is the best model and framework to secure viable solutions.

Business district centers, and it may well be that we've got to imagine, for example, you know how people live in those district centers. So we know that at the moment, there's many of those shops. There's probably a lot more potential to build above them and to create more livable space. But if you're going to do that, Then you've got to make sure that that livable space is attractive for them.

And that's what we're seeing in Southampton City Centre. So in our local transport plan in the city centre, we have the objective of making the city centre much more livable and much healthier. And that will mean restricting car use. So cars will be pushed out onto the ring road that we've invested significant sums on so that when you developments come forward in the city centre as they are doing at Debenhams, at Bargate, elsewhere, then there's going to be a lot less traffic for those residents and it will be healthier and potentially much better environments.

But then we've got to make sure that we can do that elsewhere in the city because we want everyone to have an a livable area that is Attractive for them to live in. 

Matt Treviss: Mm-hmm. And is, I suppose, um, in a way financially viable to operate a business within. It's sort of, it's a, it's a full economy, isn't it?

Yeah. We need, we need to, we need to tick all the boxes. Let's, we've got one last interview to share with you. We've got Abraham and Kamal from the Kohinoor of Kerala. Um, they're, uh, uh, a restaurant on Portswood High Street. Let's have a listen to what these guys have to say. 

So I'm here with Abraham and Kamal, owners of the Kohinoor of Kerala in Portswood, right opposite Portswood Bus Gate.

Can you tell us a little bit about how Portswood Bus Gate has affected your business? 

Abraham - Kohinoor of Kerala: It's affected us a bit badly. Uh, especially the affected on the, uh, take away. People are reluctant to come. They are worried about, you know, driving through Bus Gate. If they need to use an alternative way, they need to drive through the avenue.

That's another four, three to four mile. They need to drive more, and the traffic is bad. Or Thomas Lewis Way, that's again another 3 4 mile around, just to pick up a takeaway. They don't want to do it. And especially it's prime time between 6 and 7. That's the takeaway side is financially affected us badly.

Matt Treviss: What about customer numbers coming in to the restaurant? Have you seen a change there? 

Kamal - Kohinoor of Kerala: Yes, we have actually. I mean, early evening, we don't, we are not getting enough customers, actually, what we get used to be. Uh, reason like last, since last week, actually, isn't it? We have significantly, significantly gone down, actually, the customer early evening.

And, uh, I think people worried. If they come across there, they get a ticket, and then they don't want to take a risk. So, I mean, I think a few times they will try to come in, and then afterwards, wherever they find an easy way, they can go there. And because making extra journey, extra time on the road, they don't really want to do that.

Actually, if somebody wanted to come and pick up the quick takeaway, they won't be turning up. 

Matt Treviss: And what will happen, I mean, if that continues, what's the reality for the business? What impact is that going to have long term? 

Kamal - Kohinoor of Kerala: Well, I don't think it's going to help us at all. People want easy access, wherever they can get quick, easy access, they will go there.

Matt Treviss: Abraham, what feedback have you had from customers so far? What have they been saying? 

Abraham - Kohinoor of Kerala: We have a lot of customer feedback. With our experience, 96 97 percent are against it. And, uh, to prove that, we got a, um, a form, we're getting signature, people oppose, and more than 96 percent of people signed that petition.

And some of the customer, they emailed to the council, just their anger, to show their anger to the council. So customers are very much supporting us. 

Matt Treviss: And Kamal, how do you feel about the consultation process from the council when it comes to getting the views of local businesses? What's your thoughts on that?

Kamal - Kohinoor of Kerala: I don't think they are genuinely doing anything like that actually. We haven't seen any council people come to our door and knocking or asking any questions. I didn't see that actually. I don't really, I'm not 100 percent sure about that actually. No one turned up here. 

Matt Treviss: If the, uh, if the trial was to continue or if this was to become permanent, would you want to see any changes or would you like to see the whole thing scrapped?

Abraham - Kohinoor of Kerala: Yeah, if they continue as a permanent measure, that will affect our business. Not only just affect us, some other businesses as well, you know, they are against it. six to seven and six to eight. That is a prime time. You know, if they continue with this one, that will affect, you know, we can only think we can cut down some stuff that's we already started one part time or cut cut down and that won't help us much.

And that will damage the business 

Matt Treviss: Abraham. What's your what's your message to the council right now? 

Abraham - Kohinoor of Kerala: They need to reverse it. That's the message. And just let us have our livelihood, you know, doing what we are doing now. 

Matt Treviss: So that was Abraham and Kamal from Kohinoor of Kerala. Um, a lot to unpack there.

Obviously they have, they've seen a, a drop in cu in, uh, customer numbers. Um, 96% of their customers apparently oppose the scheme. I mean, how do you respond to that? I mean, if it is harming a local business, I suppose it's difficult, isn't it? Keeping everybody happy, but how do we, how do we, how do we work around this?

Eamonn Keogh: Yeah, there are the, there are some significant challenges and I absolutely hear what this business owner is saying. About wanting, customers wanting easy access. One of the challenges we face, for example, as locally elected members, is when we go out knocking on doors and we'll say, do you have any issues?

Many times residents will say to us, the biggest issue I have is the speed of traffic down my road and the amount of traffic down my road. And the fact that my road is being used as a rat run to get from A to B. And I suppose one of the challenges that we do have is that, As a resident, you don't want significant volumes of traffic outside your property.

But then, you are part of that traffic in someone else's location. So, it's about trying to understand. We've got to try and balance the, Different priorities and the different needs and that ease of access. That is a challenge for any business. Now what we've done, we're supporting the for example, the £1 evening fares.

So what we're saying to residents, particularly in the district centres, the district centres, whether it's Portswood, whether it's Bitterne, whether it's Shirley, whether it's the city centre that they've got the bus connectivity. So in the evening after six o'clock, you can travel. For £1 each way, so that's only £2 and you've avoided the parking, and it's a much better way to travel.

So what we are saying to people that if you're going to go out of an evening, why don't you take the bus? Then, you know, you don't have to worry about parking. You don't have to worry about, for example, whether you've had a few drinks, you can have a good time. Everyone can get home safely. I do understand businesses that are relying on, for example, takeaways.

But the challenge that we do have is that in this country and in the city, we do have a health crisis. We have, for example, too many of our children in year, in each school year, are overweight. And that overweight will mean that as they reach adulthood, they will become obese. The statistics tell us that by 2050, One in two people will be obese.

That's, that's the evidence. So our challenge is that as a city, we have a public health crisis. So we have too many people that are living unhealthy lives. And the difficulty is, is One factor that does contribute to that is maybe their diet and how often they are probably relying on take away foods. Now, sometimes those are difficult messages because it is a matter of choice.

I wouldn't want to tell anyone how they should live their lives. But there is a consequence of the fact that people are living these unhealthy lives. We're seeing that with the amount that we're spending on invalidity sickness payments to Within the population that's going to rise potentially up to 100 million, 100 billion, sorry, by 2030.

These things are not sustainable. So there are some very difficult choices that we have to make. Now what I would say to any business is this. Maybe there's ways in which you can be more innovative and more imaginative about how you attract people to come into your business and stay in that business premises.

And not to be so reliant on the car, because at the moment, we're not able to cope with the amount of traffic that's, that's on our network. And we see that, for example, when Saints are playing at home, when we've got cruise ships visiting our ports, and when we've got other events. So, we have to have a strategy and a vision. for the future. 

And I was mentioning to someone the other day, on Friday of last week, we had over 50 children coming from local schools who were promoting active travel at their school gates. And every one of those children were talking about that they want to see more people walking and cycling, getting on the bus.

But what they did say is that many of them were saying that they weren't allowed to cycle because their parents were fearful of the amount of traffic on the road. So if we do want our children to cycle confidently and safely, we do have to accept that we do have to limit the road space for motorists and probably try and discourage motorists.

The number of drivers that we've got discourage some of those drivers from being on the road and also get them to drive safely because many cyclists will raise the issue that they don't feel safe because of the way in which motorists are trying to get ahead of them on the road. And we do have to accept we're all sharing that road space.

We shouldn't be prioritizing it for any particular group. We've got to learn how to share it. And at the moment. That is a real challenge. 

Matt Treviss: Yeah. And it's interesting because obviously with the, with the timings that obviously the bus gate is open and closed in effect, you know, for any businesses that maybe are reliant on that takeaway business, if they wanted to keep that takeaway business and, you know, and effectively do deliveries for their customers, could there be an option where their, where their drivers are exempt from the, they, then they can travel a bit more freely.

Eamonn Keogh: We wouldn't give them exemptions, but what we would, what we would recommend and what we do encourage is. To think about the route that you're taking, the challenge is, and I do understand it, that if you're a delivery driver, and we've got to understand there are two different models here, the actual person delivering the food, they are part of a different business model to the actual business that's preparing the food.

So the real issue is the delivery driver. They make their money from the number of deliveries that they make. So they want to be as quick as possible. So they're, they're, whether that's through the Uber platform, so that's different. But what's happening is this, isn't it? Is that if those Uber drivers are not able to make as many customer deliveries, then that will affect on the supply chain in terms of the actual food preparation, the restaurant, the fast food takeaway.

But, you know, if we think about it, you go back about 10 years, there wasn't, we didn't have this food delivery. This is quite a recent phenomenon. Part of it has been driven by COVID. So it's not something that has been with us for a long period of time. It is something that is quite recent and it may well be that some businesses have become too reliant on fast food takeaway.

And we've got to say that maybe they need to reconsider their business model and how they can generate income from other ways, i. e. getting more people to come into the restaurant, sit down, have a meal. 

Matt Treviss: And get the bus there. 

Eamonn Keogh: Yeah, and get the bus there. There's um, 

Matt Treviss: so there's a, from what I understand, there's a, there's a protest this weekend, Eamon, um, and there's also calls for your resignation. I mean, is that, is that what you expected? 

Eamonn Keogh: The bus skate was always going to be controversial and you know, if, if I just wanted to be popular, I wouldn't have proceeded with this, but I'm 64 years of age and I, I'm conscious of what is the future of this city? What future are we leaving for our Children?

And those 50 school children that came to the city centre, to the civic centre on Friday, who spoke passionately about wanting to walk and cycle and get the bus more, and we've also had the Southampton Citizens Climate Assembly that also said their vision is that they want the bus to be the transport of choice and they want to see more people walking and cycling.

So, there is, there is a strong voice advocating active travel. Now if I want to be popular, I wouldn't have proceeded with the bus gate. But the difficulty sometimes in life is this, that this is not a popularity contest. We have to make some hard choices about what future transport network we want, and many of us have been abroad.

I've been to Paris recently and to Boston recently, and both of those cities, I know that they are significantly larger than Southampton, but they've got some fantastic public transport options to help you get around, and we've got to be saying to our residents, look, there is a potential to have a better way of getting around the city.

That's a key objective of our local transport plan. If we delay that opportunity, It's going to cost us even more in the future, because at some point our network is just not going to be able to cope with the amount of cars. So we've got to make these decisions now. And as a council, what we're saying is, we want to, we want to, we want to focus on what is right now.

And what is right for the future, because it's our children that will be inheriting that future. And, you know, hopefully, those young people who came to the city centre, We'll look back and think, do you know what? It's really, I'm really pleased that maybe there were some politicians that were brave enough to say, There, there's gotta be a better way of getting around the city.

Matt Treviss: Well, Eamon on that note, we're, we're out of time. Yeah. Thank you for coming into the studio this afternoon, sharing your thoughts. It's been really good to get that insight. And, uh, yeah, I, uh, hope you have a fantastic, uh, journey ho on the, on the, on the bike. Absolutely. Love that. You've been listening to, uh, Matt Revis with the business on Southampton's voice fm, and I'm gonna be back again next week with another exciting guest.

Bye for now. 

Today's show is all about the the business of Food Festivals, I am here in the studio with Chief Festival Organiser Jeremy Gaskin, and Olivia Snow, Brand Marketing Manager from Snows who are the headline sponsors of the event.

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